United States Politics: Deportations for some, miniature American flags for others!

[booomer]

It's a way to move money from poor people to rich people.

Donating money to the Democrat Party for the 2024 election?

[booomer]

Now for the biggest turd in the Republican party getting a community note.

Boo Hoo, we haven't been given a raise since 2008, says the millionaire.

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Spoiler:  (click to show)(click to hide)

[Nintex]

tbh I think that if Kamala had ignored all the political consultants and ran as a resentful wine mom ranting about how life is too expensive, the trans are annoying her, Netanyahu is a little bitch and Trump is a moron she would've gotten more votes.

Being sick of it all is the energy and authenticity her campaign needed.

As for the tarrifs. It really depends on how you apply them but China is just gaming the system. Chinese corporations just get money from the state to undercut western companies by 50% - 75%. It makes sense to slap them on Canada and Mexico too because otherwise they would just move their goods through Mexico/Canada to the United States.

Overall there is no perfect solution but none of the trade agreements we are operating under today are caught up with these times. The intention was never to ship plastic spoons halfway across the globe. It was really a matter of production not being able to meet demand and giving China an opportunity to meet that demand on a level playing field. When those agreements were signed the western countries certainly had no idea this would be the result. They expected China to become more Democratic if its people became more prosperous and educated.

[Uncle]

The thing I don't understand about the tariffs, is it seems to just be America shooting itself in the foot? We import nearly everything and don't have the infrastructure in place to make most of this stuff ourselves and won't for years, so Trump will just be forcing everyone to pay more for stuff we can't buy elsewhere. :v And even when we are able to make it in America, it'll be by people we actually have to pay wages. It won't be produced by chinese children for pennies. Is Trump gonna send us all monthly stimmies so we can afford to buy the new american made walmart goods?

I genuinely think the presumed impact is overblown.

IIRC Trump "tariffed" around last term as well. And we didn't really feel that--arguably prices are a lot weirder now than they were during his term. 

The global economy is complicated (this level of keen insight should realistically get me appointed as Secretary of OMB in the Trump admin) and I think we're a long way away from the time when a simple, logical principle like "cost go up 20%, price go up 20%" actually applied directly.

Not to defend Trump here, but I think tariffed and non-tariffed bodies will react to these things--if Trump even actually implements it--in a way to protect their business interests. For example, if China is paying a massive tariff on every piece of plastic trash they ship over, I expect many of those companies just eat some of all of that cost: if they pass it on to the consumer, suddenly you'll see Americans buying higher-priced, higher-quality shit and ignoring the million fake VINDFOO brands that are all over Amazon. 

That's just one theoretical above. Maybe that doesn't happen at all. But there are other interested actors across the world, and some of them certainly will pivot in some way. Which is why I'm skeptical we'll see some sort of Playstation Price Holocaust or whatever.

I thought tariffs were paid by the company doing the importing, which then passes it on to the consumer to make up the difference

[benji]

The thing I don't understand about the tariffs, is it seems to just be America shooting itself in the foot? We import nearly everything and don't have the infrastructure in place to make most of this stuff ourselves and won't for years, so Trump will just be forcing everyone to pay more for stuff we can't buy elsewhere. :v And even when we are able to make it in America, it'll be by people we actually have to pay wages. It won't be produced by chinese children for pennies. Is Trump gonna send us all monthly stimmies so we can afford to buy the new american made walmart goods?

Trump's a moron and thinks it will give him "leverage" to negotiate a "better deal" because he's an idiot. To all the other idiots this makes sense because they're idiots and think taking yourself hostage with no leverage is a brilliant idea.

Look at Nintex, he thinks it's a problem if the Chinese state subsidizes our consumers for some reason so we need to punish ourselves for this. And thinks you need to build some kind of anti-trade fortress even against countries that aren't doing the "problem" to keep your precious bodily fluids pure.

Overall there is no perfect solution but none of the trade agreements we are operating under today are caught up with these times. The intention was never to ship plastic spoons halfway across the globe. It was really a matter of production not being able to meet demand and giving China an opportunity to meet that demand on a level playing field. When those agreements were signed the western countries certainly had no idea this would be the result. They expected China to become more Democratic if its people became more prosperous and educated.

[Nintex]

O'Leary calls for 400% tariffs so there will be riots in the streets of China.

He also praises Trumps pro-business policies.

[benji]

Kevin O'Leary's not even from "our country", mass deport his ass. 

[benji]

[Potato]

Tariffs are stupid and appeal to stupid people. None of this shit is going to be manufactured in the West and all of it is just going to cost people in the West more money. 

Is someone just going to spin up a high tech manufacturing facility to bring electronics manufacturing back to the US and Europe? What about heavy industry stuff?

Edit: Ironically, the Chinese tried this shit to punish us after we asked for COVID to be investigated properly by an independent panel. 

They used their superior economic power to put tariffs on a range of goods that they couldn't produce themselves. We soon found new markets for things like barley, wine and other goods. Our industry and economy was barely affected.

[booomer]

If Trump is wrong, then Dems will have a better chance in 2028. All these experts sure kept quiet when Biden was spending us into some of the worst inflation in US history. I know Benji, it was all Trumps fault.

[Nintex]

Tariffs are stupid and appeal to stupid people. None of this shit is going to be manufactured in the West and all of it is just going to cost people in the West more money. 

Is someone just going to spin up a high tech manufacturing facility to bring electronics manufacturing back to the US and Europe? What about heavy industry stuff?

They will play hardball with Canada and Mexico but ultimately target China and some others they dislike and pressure everyone else to play ball in dragging China through the mud.
With Russia bleeding out and Iran limping along the sharks simply smell the blood in the water.

I wonder if Thiel, Sacks, Musk and other Silicon Valley bros have been "Russian appeasers" simply to speed up its demise. Knowing full well that if Russia continued the war thinking there was a chance Trump would help them out, they would completely destroy themselves.

[benji]

All these experts sure kept quiet when Biden was spending us into some of the worst inflation in US history. I know Benji, it was all Trumps fault.

"Inflation is always and everywhere a monetary phenomenon"

Tariffs are the same type of socialist economic policy.

[booomer]

[benji]

Well, except for the progress of not losing to the larger enemy.

Surprised they haven't already been drafting down to 16 or so.

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[Potato]

If Trump is wrong, then Dems will have a better chance in 2028. All these experts sure kept quiet when Biden was spending us into some of the worst inflation in US history. I know Benji, it was all Trumps fault.

Biden didn't do that. Inflation happened globally because governments all around the world printed money to keep people employed and fed during the pandemic and because energy process skyrocketed due to the Russian invasion of Ukraine.

This is pretty basic economics 101.

Nothing Biden did had a tangible effect on the bubble created by almost every government in the world.

[Gameboy Nostalgia]

How could Trump do this?!

[Potato]

Tariffs are stupid and appeal to stupid people. None of this shit is going to be manufactured in the West and all of it is just going to cost people in the West more money. 

Is someone just going to spin up a high tech manufacturing facility to bring electronics manufacturing back to the US and Europe? What about heavy industry stuff?

They will play hardball with Canada and Mexico but ultimately target China and some others they dislike and pressure everyone else to play ball in dragging China through the mud.
With Russia bleeding out and Iran limping along the sharks simply smell the blood in the water.

I wonder if Thiel, Sacks, Musk and other Silicon Valley bros have been "Russian appeasers" simply to speed up its demise. Knowing full well that if Russia continued the war thinking there was a chance Trump would help them out, they would completely destroy themselves.

China is dragging itself through the mud because the cracks in its inefficient state-run economy can't be papered over any more. 

Trump's policies are just dick waving for the stupid who will happily blame anyone else for the fact their goods and services are costing more.

[Potato]

Why don't they keep the logo but rename the team the Washington Americans and really fuck with the lunatics on both sides?

[booomer]

If Trump is wrong, then Dems will have a better chance in 2028. All these experts sure kept quiet when Biden was spending us into some of the worst inflation in US history. I know Benji, it was all Trumps fault.

Biden didn't do that. Inflation happened globally because governments all around the world printed money to keep people employed and fed during the pandemic and because energy process skyrocketed due to the Russian invasion of Ukraine.

This is pretty basic economics 101.

Nothing Biden did had a tangible effect on the bubble created by almost every government in the world.

https://mitsloan.mit.edu/ideas-made-to-matter/federal-spending-was-responsible-2022-spike-inflation-research-shows

[benji]

https://mitsloan.mit.edu/ideas-made-to-matter/federal-spending-was-responsible-2022-spike-inflation-research-shows

That paper is not remotely arguing what you are. They are attempting to predict when inflation becomes visible, not what caused it. (Because it's always and everywhere a monetary phenomenon.)

[Gameboy Nostalgia]

Why don't they keep the logo but rename the team the Washington Americans and really fuck with the lunatics on both sides?

[Uncle]

[tw eet]https://twitter.com/brianstelter/status/1861448791703843338[/tweet]
[tw eet]https://twitter.com/brianstelter/status/1861449507713479078[/tweet]
[tw eet]https://twitter.com/ChrisCillizza/status/1861579463655358555[/tweet]

so...pretty sure this shit boils down to "he was seen and heard, and she was not"

don't think it has anything to do with traditional media appearances, trump just did his own thing and there were videos of him all over

up to the end nobody even knew what kamala's beliefs were, what her platform was

the few interviews she did felt combative and angry and were embarrassing

[DavidCroquet]

I think there's a big missed calculus here in that people are talking strategy at all.

Kamala had a strategy certainly. But no one can convince me that Trump did. And sometimes people just love seeing a band of really energetic slobs fart and stumble undeservedly over finish line. You can't combat that appeal with a bunch of technocrats and norms-protectors: you end up looking like the bad guys in an 80s frat comedy.

[booomer]

https://mitsloan.mit.edu/ideas-made-to-matter/federal-spending-was-responsible-2022-spike-inflation-research-shows

That paper is not remotely arguing what you are. They are attempting to predict when inflation becomes visible, not what caused it. (Because it's always and everywhere a monetary phenomenon.)

. You thought I actually read that? No, I am not an economist even though I did sleep in a Holiday Express a few years ago. I just like to troll along, enjoying my party's victory over a bunch of overeducated elitists who tried everything at their disposal to stop Trump and failed miserably. Never have so many "experts" been so wrong at one time. Now the experts are going to nitpick every Trump policy. 

Let's see what happens when he gets back in office and see if he can do the things he promised. That will determine if the Republicans stay in power. It's what the majority of Americans voted for.

[booomer]

Kamala had a strategy certainly. But no one can convince me that Trump did. 

His strategy was pretty simple. The border, the economy and the DEI/trans/woke issues. Even Democrat strategists admit the, "She is for they/them, he is for us" worked.

[Nintex]

[tweet]https://twitter.com/CollinRugg/status/1861928325570027610?t=K_M9ly53Kp1eNVtO1pYj2g&s=19[/tweet]

[booomer]

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-14134907/mexican-president-sheinbaum-stop-migration-donald-trump.html

President-elect Donald Trump announced a major breakthrough on border talks, claiming Mexican President Claudia Sheinbaum has vowed to stop illegal migration into the U.S. 'effective immediately.'

The huge shift in policy would help the U.S. stem the flow of historic levels of illegal immigration through the border the two countries share - the number one political issue Trump vowed to address on the campaign trail.

'Mexico will stop people from going to our Southern Border, effective immediately,' the president-elect posted on Truth Social. 'This will go a long way toward stopping the illegal invasion of the USA. Thank you!'

In another post, Trump writes more about the agreements the two made.

'Just had a wonderful conversation with the new President of Mexico, Claudia Sheinbaum Pardo,' the Republican posted.

'She has agreed to stop Migration through Mexico, and into the United States, effectively closing our Southern Border.'

'We also talked about what can be done to stop the massive drug inflow into the United States, and also, U.S. consumption of these drugs. It was a very productive conversation!'

Sheinbaum confirmed that she would be immediately addressing migration, including a caravan of migrants that was headed for the U.S.

'I had an excellent conversation with President Donald Trump,' she posted on X.

'We addressed Mexico's strategy regarding the migration phenomenon, and I shared that caravans are no longer reaching the northern border as they are being addressed within Mexico.'

[booomer]

Tariff threats - 1
Experts - 0