Journal of Other Forum Analysis

[HaughtyFrank]

FF7 rebirth selling below expectations really bummed me out because to me it felt like the absolute best that game could be. Had a total blast with it

[Daffy Duck]

Played OG7 when it came out and spent 98 hours in it back then, hated every FF afterwards lol.

Played Remake and was lukewarm on it, Rebirth I’ve played enough to open it up and get to the chocobo ranch and done nothing else with it, not got the time for it atm though I did like what they’ve got in there

[DavidCroquet]

If we're getting into turn-based vs. non, then that's a stronger argument. But those games were still way different: people were shouting "we have to go back!" as far back as FF8.

I do think years mean something too: mostly in terms of if it's worthwhile or realistic to debate what FF "is". FF is more defined by difference than similarity, and has been for a really long time. Ask 5 people what they'd like the series to go back to, and you'll get 5 different answers. It's a request that is impossible to satisfy.

I think too much hay is being made of the underperformance of the remakes and 16. Their series peak is FF15, which was famously mismanaged, spent years in dev hell, and released all kinds of fucked up. That was one mainline entry ago.

For a series like this, some iterations will hit (7, 15) and some will miss (9, 16)...it's an inbuilt risk of the format. But it also avoids the worst outcome, which is appealing to a diminishing audience by offering the same thing over and over. People on the internet say that is what is happening, but I just doubt that's the case. It's way more likely that 15 and 16 just appeal to different, partially overlapping groups that are not equal in size.

For 7R in particular, that one is easily explained by bad luck and systemic issues traditional sequel falloff. I dunno what SE was smoking to think Rebirth would sell more than Remake...it's definitely a better, more polished game IMO, but those games are extremely tightly linked--they were only ever going to get fewer players for Rebirth. And I expect the same again for the 3rd, completely irrespective of how good it is in a vacuum.

Spoiler:  (click to show)(click to hide)

FF13 is my series fave (yes, really) since we're listing personal bests.

[PogiJones]

FF7 rebirth selling below expectations really bummed me out because to me it felt like the absolute best that game could be. Had a total blast with it

I'm guessing there are a bunch of people like me who are not in a rush to get part 2 of a 3-part series that was all originally one game that we already played. I could be wrong about the market, but it's at least true for me. Although I must say that hearing everyone praise it up and down is getting me to maybe reconsider waiting.

[HardcoreRetro]

Where is my representation? Give my character a toggle for depression. When I go and take a shit the character should try and take his life during the idle animations.

Add some spice to the game.

[BananaBlast]

FF7 rebirth selling below expectations really bummed me out because to me it felt like the absolute best that game could be. Had a total blast with it

+1. Really amazing game. Probably my favorite JRPG ever.

[EaldNarche]

I think literally the only thing holding back the sales of the new final fantasy games is SE insisting on these exclusivity deals. Like, it makes no sense to pour so much money into the development of these games and then only release them on one platform at launch. If they were smart they'd still be releasing on the ps4 like ubisoft is. It sounds like they finally got the message though. It should have been a no brainer but that's SE for you. They should make sure all their new releases can run on the smitch 2/ps4 pro going forward and just scale the games up to look nicer with all the terashits in the ps5 pro or whatever.

[Daffy Duck]

I just don’t think FF would sell in any numbers on Xbox, one imagine FF7 would sell less than 100k copies per game, 15 may well sell more but I don’t think the market is there

[EaldNarche]

I just don’t think FF would sell in any numbers on Xbox, one imagine FF7 would sell less than 100k copies per game, 15 may well sell more but I don’t think the market is there

Yea, the xbox sales have always been pretty dismal. I think being on the ps4 would make a big difference though. Japan is in love with the switch, but porting big games to it isn't realistic. The switch 2 should be a given though.

[Uncle]

If we're getting into turn-based vs. non, then that's a stronger argument. But those games were still way different: people were shouting "we have to go back!" as far back as FF8.

that's only minutia among weird nerds though, they're still all RPGs within a very similar vein

like screaming "we have to go back" at mario because now he uses a feather instead of a raccoon tail, or has one world map rather than 8 smaller worlds, back then this might've been called "a series reinventing itself" but that's such a minor aspect of the series DNA

I do think years mean something too: mostly in terms of if it's worthwhile or realistic to debate what FF "is". FF is more defined by difference than similarity, and has been for a really long time. Ask 5 people what they'd like the series to go back to, and you'll get 5 different answers. It's a request that is impossible to satisfy.

I don't agree, like if you pick FF12 as a cutoff point that was in 2006, which is almost 20 years ago now

if you say "look the series has gone in all sorts of weird directions for the past 20 years," you have to acknowledge that this actually means only 4 fuckin games, with 12 games prior to that point

fuck the 4 most recent ones, there's so much that's similar among the first 12 that you have a strong baseline of identity to work from

[Disco55]

If i were a betting man, i would think that The Switch/Switch 2 is really where the audience for a new Final Fantasy game would be, not on Playstation.

[AldusMoneyPenny]

Needs the option to tweet asking for money rather than grinding for gold

[nachobro]

16 the best final fantasy in around 15 years, the series is fine

sure the game was just DMC + Game of Thrones but fuck it that shit was tight. also yall hating on soken music are nuts

[nachobro]

FFX remake in the style of 16 when

[BisMarckie]

I also hope his kid stopped being a white supremacist.

I looked up the original story on shinobi's racist kid. That was two years ago. Why does my brain remember this

[Besticus Maximus]

Look at us, talking about games and having contrasting opinions without anyone having their lives ruined

[FEUER FREI.]

contrasting opinions? sounds like chud talk

[DJ Bedroom]

I thought ff7r was fine, but I fucking hated rebirth. Everything dragged on and on and on, and none of it was that interesting. I suppose that's what you get when you take like an 8-10ish chunk of a game and try to make it 50 hours.  It had the same problem that xvi had in that something cool would happen but then they hit the brakes so you can play minigames or go do MMO side quests for far too long.

[BisMarckie]

Final Fantasy rankings, huh?

We have really come full circle.

Bring back narolf!

[Propagandhim]

Square makes weird decisions.  Remember when they announced Dragon Quest XII 4 years ago but haven't spoke about it ever since then?  What was the point of that?  It's not as if people thought they'd kill the series after XI, so what was the point?

[DocWager]

I must’ve clicked the CHUD club thread.

[Hap Shaughnessy]

I played FF 1.

[Anti-Monitor]

Final Fantasy power rankings

FF7
FF9
FF7 Rebirth
FF7 Remake
FF16
FF6
FF13-2 (underrated as fuck)

...
...

...

...

FFXV at the bottom, dogshit

I actually think FF16 was one of the best games of last year, it got ignored for the usual petty bullshit on hitlerera

13-2 had no right to be anywhere near as entertaining as it was. Easily my fave after the golden age of 6 to 10 (and 7 Remake)

I also wanna play 16 and 7 Rebirth but I do not have a PS5.

[Uncle]

Square makes weird decisions.  Remember when they announced Dragon Quest XII 4 years ago but haven't spoke about it ever since then?  What was the point of that?  It's not as if people thought they'd kill the series after XI, so what was the point?

they announced the remake of dragon quest 3 in 2021, which would be using an engine and art style that was already done and established and honestly should've taken a small studio 6 months to make, and here we are 3 years later

[Uncle]

I played FF 1.

[Hap Shaughnessy]

[Taco Bell Tower]

https://www.resetera.com/threads/final-fantasys-sales-crisis-is-also-an-identity-crisis-opinion.986814/

Yes. I think this is absolutely the series' biggest problem. Square has been bragging for years about how "Final Fantasy can be whatever the director wants it to be", but as we've seen over the past decade with the sales progressively decaying from entry to entry, the lack of a consistent series identity means that EVERY NEW GAME is basically starting from 0 and only supported by the franchise's most ardent fans.

And as we get older, there are less and less of us every year. We're aging, having kids, getting sick of video games, getting sick of RPGs, and some of us are even dying. There is no refreshing the brand because every new game throws the last game in the garbage and has to sell an entirely new group of people on an entirely new game design.

The series needs to find something that it can excel at and focus on it instead of reinventing itself over and over again.

Not everyone is a 40 year old pile of rotten pessimism, Pricksmasher. Besides, you don't have kids and you spend all your time with video games, so it's not like you're too busy to play games anyway. I can't even pull myself to agree with him, even if I do think the Final Fantasy series struggles due to its lack of clear identity. The guy's not looking to be satisfied, he's just looking to complain about something.

Tifa's tits sent him into a meltdown, therefore he could just be still salty over that.

Not even 2 posts later:

square's business reality is not my problem as a player

Speaking bluntly: it absolutely is your problem if you want to keep getting Final Fantasy games.

Asshole couldn't help but to get mad at someone for not sharing their doom and gloom.

Also complaining on Ree until you become physically unable to isn't going to solve anything on Square Enix's part.

smashman:

Yes. I think this is absolutely the series' biggest problem. Square has been bragging for years about how "Final Fantasy can be whatever the director wants it to be", but as we've seen over the past decade with the sales progressively decaying from entry to entry, the lack of a consistent series identity means that EVERY NEW GAME is basically starting from 0 and only supported by the franchise's most ardent fans.

but then:

Speaking bluntly: it absolutely is your problem if you want to keep getting Final Fantasy games.

why the fuck do I want "final fantasy games" when by your own admission that doesn't mean anything? maybe the next one will be a college football simulator, who knows, I'm not buying it just because it has the name attached

Yeah, I'm actually down for a FF college football simulator.  I don't mean blitzball either.

[DavidCroquet]

https://www.resetera.com/threads/kotaku-concord-director-steps-down-as-studio-behind-historic-playstation-flop-waits-for-sonys-decision.986304/page-11#post-129002313

And considering the person that made the thread for the Colin tweet changed from a Stellar Blade avatar to a Space Marines avatar on the day the CEO endorsed that YouTube comment, I hardly believe it was an accident.

Bag 'em and tag 'em folks...daywalking chuds have nowhere to hide while Sheriff Valkaria is in town.  

[Taco Bell Tower]

Square makes weird decisions.  Remember when they announced Dragon Quest XII 4 years ago but haven't spoke about it ever since then?  What was the point of that?  It's not as if people thought they'd kill the series after XI, so what was the point?

they announced the remake of dragon quest 3 in 2021, which would be using an engine and art style that was already done and established and honestly should've taken a small studio 6 months to make, and here we are 3 years later

https://nichegamer.com/square-enix-censors-iconic-dragon-quest-designs/
They censored stuff 

[HaughtyFrank]

Anytime someone brings up the Concord budget it has risen by another 50 million

Re thread was instantly locked 

https://www.resetera.com/threads/sacred-symbols-concord-was-the-most-expensive-game-sony-has-ever-released-at-400mln-budget-was-internally-referred-to-as-the-future-of-playstation.987219/