Journal of Other Forum Analysis

[benji]

You could kill a Scotsman in York from the city walls with a cross bow (this is actually true)

But that actually proves my point because of the way they would have defined Scotsman before helping him find out for fucking around outside the city walls.

[Besticus Maximus]

You could kill a Scotsman in York from the city walls with a cross bow (this is actually true)

But that actually proves my point because of the way they would have defined Scotsman before helping him find out for fucking around outside the city walls.

It wasn't actually true, Chaos reigns supreme 

[benji]

Nepenthe's entire argument is completely in line with guys like Roger Taney, John C. Calhoun and George Fitzhugh. Then she barrels right into the eugenicists of later and thinks their problem is they were too timid and skeptical of their "science" because of a few complications like the fact it never replicated.

[benji]

It wasn't actually true, Chaos reigns supreme 

A perfect example of why you can't trust white people.

[DavidCroquet]

You could kill a Scotsman in York from the city walls with a cross bow (this is actually true)

But that actually proves my point because of the way they would have defined Scotsman before helping him find out for fucking around outside the city walls.

It wasn't actually true, Chaos reigns supreme 

[benji]

Part of it is that people are just crazy and see what they want to see, but at some point actor and studios have to stop giving the fandom attention. If you're going to say your character is queer, I better see it on screen.

[AnnoyedCanadian]

Part of it is that people are just crazy and see what they want to see, but at some point actor and studios have to stop giving the fandom attention. If you're going to say your character is queer, I better see it on screen.

This is why I can't stand fandoms nowadays. They're the exact same as anti-fans. Two sides of the same crazy coin.

Just be a normal fan of stuff and not be a fucking weirdo. It's literally the easiest thing to do.

[benji]

yeah none of those "superfans" will be minorities lmao

This is the natural extension of our fucked up modern American society. Its insane that being anti-racist and anti-sexist is a controversial ideology, to the point Studios run chickenshit from easy PR conflicts because a portion of the fanbase are loud troglodytes

Thanks to YouTube.

GamerGate basically evolved. Never went away.

This is the stupidest idea. Why let loser chuds dictate what should thrive

Awesome, I can't wait for no women (who aren't big titted subservient super models), poc (unless they are a sassy sidekick) or LGBT people existing anymore.

Absolute joke. Genuinely disgusting. No pushing boundaries, no challenging audiences, no equal opportunities for fresh and new stories and takes to be shared. Fuck off.

your supposed to tell superfans to kick rocks not entertain there fanfiction

I guarantee you any project where woman, POC or queer characters or talent are at the forefront has to go through dozens of executives concerned about mass marketability. Now they're gonna empower fans to call these out so they have something to point to.

Part of the issue is that social media algorithms boost these kinds of dudes to the top. For a really really long time (and even now to an extent), the youtube algorithm will literally promote videos that are framed in such a way to cause a fight or some sort of controversy or anger. Basically the sort of thing that will cause people to go into the comments section and post a comment, either good or bad, gets boosted to the top. This has been known and this sort of chud nonsense racks up huge amounts of engagement, so the algorithms push it to the top to keep us on the platform and arguing in the comments. It's not just youtube either, this is how all of those sites and platforms work.

Our modern social media platforms literally signal boost this shit because it makes them money. It gives a bunch of people who would normally be loud and angry and ignored a megaphone and everyone's shocked that it causes problems in the real world.

This basically sounds like a way to turn every blockbuster franchise into highly produced fan fiction.

unfortunately the chuds are a very loud minatory. that are able to spread there hate message around very quickly.

Can't believe we allowed algorithmic social media and con-artist astroturfing to basically take over everything on Earth. It's like everything that exists is poisoned and manipulated by easily-organized toxic Internet discourse under the guise of "fandom", lol

So what do you do when "fans" are triggered by any single minority casting, showrunner, director, writer etc.

Are they powerful, or are they just loud?
It feels like one of those things that you're really only aware of if you're terminally-online.

I can't help wondering if they're getting baited into thinking the problem is much worse than it really is due to bad recommendation algorithms that amplify the voices of a small group of bad actors.
It's especially bad on Twitter, which seems engineered for it now.

You'll never please a group of people whose entire identity is to be outraged at things.
Ignore them. Make the art you want to see. Stop engaging with toxic platforms that have next to zero moderation in place.

I guess one way to guarantee the safety and mental wellbeing of your minority talent is to focus group them into not appearing in the media in the first place.

The problem is that "I heard it's bad" becomes the dominant narrative the second a black lead is shown.

And even if you watch a video of an "Angry YouTube Man" criticizing the movie for actual flaws, the algorithm will immediately start suggesting "Movie bad because woman" immediately after you finish.

Couldn't have put it better myself

These people don't want there favourite thing to be 'changed' to appeal to other audiences, they want it for themselves as in some cases it's all they have. And they take the bullying they suffered and put it into other groups as they grow up.

Easier to complain about women being cast as main characters in your favourite nerd thing as a way to take out your anger on them for laughing at you for Naruto running in the halls

Not only is the superfan demographic drowned in toxic dipshits, focus testing in general means talking to people who have no fucking idea how to articulate how they feel and why - and they sure as hell can't offer any actual advice.

Asking a bunch of hyper protective angry weirdos who can't read or interpret a script or animatic gets you nowhere

Every day goes by I realize TLJ wasn't just right but should have been a knife to the heart about these Fandoms.

Yep. People here write it off because it doesn't a tangible effect on box office or views, but the problem what the chuds have is a soft power. What they impact is the overall discourse - they overwhelm the narrative with loud relentless hate, which is actively boosted by algorithms more than willing to mine such extreme impotent rage for clicks and traffic. And it's pervasive enough that it seeps out of these internet bubbles into the wider perception....and as it trickles it gets laundered and diluted into something more palatable for the normies. The reasons why don't get out but they don't have to, the overall miasma of dread is enough to scare them away. And it's that that has more tangible impacts.

Speaking of dread I'm personally dreading the inevitable Asmongold and Yong Yea that will no doubt emerge to comment and victory-lap over this article. To quite Asmongold himself regarding WoW Classic: "Hey, it worked, right?"

The kind of super-fans that would get pulled for these kind of things are also the kind of super-fans that'd call Era a toxic hate-site. So, y'know.

Can't wait for references upon references for every single film to make sure your nostalgia is tugged.

Only thing that matters to those nerds.

There's not enough  for this thread.

Also how many people in there are basically repeating chud talking points like this guy paraphrasing Fascist Letter Media:

or just keep cranking out shitty remakes and half-baked sequels to existing franchises. your call.

[AnnoyedCanadian]

https://www.resetera.com/threads/writer-ta-nehisi-coates-interviewed-by-cbs-this-morning-and-goes-viral-talking-about-the-palestinian-plight-in-israel.999411/page-3#post-129673392

Joined
Today at 1:42 PM

Messages
3

I wonder who's account that is who recently got banned. Plus, calling opinions from a JEWISH sub reddit "weird" is thinly veiled antisemitism.

KSweeley

As a Baltimorean, I am proud of Baltimore native Ta-Nehisi Coates. He is such a great person and writer. I am glad that Coates is speaking up for the Palestinians.

Here's the Wikipedia entry for Coates:

This fucking retard. I swear. Another one of these idiots with no independent thought. HERE'S A WIKI ARTICLE, READ IT. HERE'S A NEWS ARTICLE, READ IT.

[benji]

I also love how everybody in that thread basically came to the same stupid conclusion about this being entirely regarding their own creepy obsessions about race/gender/etc. and not giant conglomerates trying to minimize brand disruption of things they've come into ownership of many decades after its creation and want to continue far removed from their original creators.

[TylenolJones]

https://www.resetera.com/threads/u-s-vice-presidential-debate-9-p-m-est-ot-minnesota-vice.998118/page-49#post-129610635

User Banned (1 Week): Antagonizing Fellow Members

I haven't had a chance to watch everything yet, but watched Walz's response about the Palestinian genocide where he said the "the expansion of Israel and its proxies are an absolute fundamental necessity to the United States".

Sorry, but the Democratic Party has officially lost me. I have tried all year to convince friends of mine who refuse to vote unless the Biden admin is able to reverse course on what's going on, that they need to vote as the alternative is evil. This is proof that this genocide is all quite literally according to plan. I cannot in good conscience claim either side is better than the other anymore.

I will not be voting in this election. I will be attending multiple protests this week and weekend. I may even strike at my job now, as they have been silent about this genocide as well.

Maybe Walz did me and everyone else a favor by finally saying the quietest part the loudest. "Expansion" of Israel has clearly resulted in the genocide of tens of thousands of Palestinians, and will result in tens of thousands of deaths in Lebanon and beyond. I have voted blue almost exclusively down ticket in every election since my first election eligibility in 2010. I will not being doing the same this year.

Yes, Trump is worse. But when you only have 2 minutes to talk about genocide, and you use 60 seconds to talk about how Israel should have a right to commit genocide, and another 60 seconds talking about Trump when he has, quite literally, nothing to do with the question, is inexcusable.

I wanted to believe that Walz was maybe a cog for change due to his demeanor, but I cannot pretend any longer. Endorsing the Democrat party as of today is to endorse genocide. Just like endorsing Trump is to endorse chaos and hatred.

I do not want to be a single issue voter (or non voter in this case), but I cannot stand for this. I no longer want to be an American.

So youre deciding not to vote even though you clearly know which is worse? Youre pathetic

Posted by a user with a Jeremy Clarkson avatar. Thought he was slick.

[HaughtyFrank]

And this comes right after they told the Dragon Quest dev to kick rocks for not liking censorship and "body type A, B"

[Uncle]

You could kill a Scotsman in York from the city walls with a cross bow (this is actually true)

But that actually proves my point because of the way they would have defined Scotsman before helping him find out for fucking around outside the city walls.

It wasn't actually true, Chaos reigns supreme 

I read that you're allowed to kill some scotsmen, just no TRUE scotsman

[Uncle]

so, this thing

...have "toxic fandoms" grown powerful, or is this just literally the free market rejecting your shit

the acolyte, the marvels, starfield, dustborn, suicide squad, forspoken, concord, ass creed, dozens of other examples

the number of fans needed to take down properties like these (by virtue of...apathy, simply not paying for it or participating in it) is astronomical, so maybe it's just fucking general audiences who are done with it

[benji]

Actually, I read that article and realized why the thread is like that. The article's shoving all kinds of things under "toxic fandom" and pretending that Star Wars fans bitching about canon or Lord of the Rings fans saying something contradicts the books is the same as being upset with race/gender-swapping or just regular racists yelling at people they don't like or even the aimless "woke"/"chud" fighting where any movement catches the eye of the combatants. The "superfan focus group" thing is about something very different than the "social media" training for actors which is itself very different from other things mentioned.

Variety and everybody involved gets to condemn it all as "toxic fandom" essentially to do what people in the thread were doing, argue that any kind of criticism is inherently illegitimate. Just shut up, stop asking questions and consume the product.

[DavidCroquet]

Forspoken is Good.

That is All.

[Boredfrom]

Also after reading that shit it's just hilarious. "Increased accessibility and visibility of racist content is not an issue, because racism is as bad now as it could ever be (and as it always has been)"

Also she's going on about Irish Slaves...isn't that a fake thing made up by white supremacists? Is she just doing a little demo of taking something when it's convenient and discarding it when it's not?
 
Anyway, 

That she does this really pisses me off.

“Is not convenient to acknowledge that Irish where racial discriminate (so race is a social construct) unless is convenient (the whites invented racism)”.

[benji]

Look at how they conflate these things one paragraph after another:

In other words, “The Acolyte” was the latest high-profile target of “toxic fandom,” the catchall term for when fan criticism curdles from good-faith dissatisfaction into a relentlessly negative, often bigoted online campaign against either the project or its stars or creative leaders. In a franchise economy increasingly dependent upon established audience devotion to drive the bottom line, the threat of toxic fandoms poisoning that enthusiasm has become a seemingly intractable headache for almost every studio. And it’s only getting worse.

“It comes with the territory, but it’s gotten incredibly loud in the last couple years,” says a veteran marketing executive at a major studio. “People are just out for blood, regardless. They think the purity of the first version will never be replaced, or you’ve done something to upset the canon of a beloved franchise, and they’re going to take you down for doing so.”

Sometimes, toxic fandoms behave reactively. A “House of the Dragon” episode featuring two female characters kissing and an episode of “The Last of Us” focusing on a gay couple were both review bombed — the practice of mobbing sites like Rotten Tomatoes and IMDb with negative user reviews, which gained mainstream attention following the premiere of 2017’s “Star Wars: The Last Jedi.” And an entire YouTube ecosystem is devoted to declaring projects like “The Marvels” and “The Boys” “woke garbage” (among other pungent sobriquets).

Just as frequently, the backlash begins before the project has seen the light of day: a Reddit mega-thread dedicated to outrage over “Bridgerton” casting a Black woman (Masali Baduza) as the love interest for Francesca (Hannah Dodd); social media epithets directed at the actors of color cast as elves and dwarves in “The Lord of the Rings: The Rings of Power”; death threats aimed at Leslie Jones during the press tour for 2016’s “Ghostbusters.”

Perhaps the greatest irony of this phenomenon is the disproportionate impact these toxic fandoms have relative to their actual number.

“The vast majority of any fandom are casual fans,” says John Van Citters, VP of Star Trek brand development, who has been with the storied franchise since the 1990s. “The number of people who live and die on their franchises are very, very few, and then those who come after things that they espouse to love with venom are a really, really tiny subset of that already smaller subset of fandom. It’s just much easier to see it now. I don’t know that it’s really that much broader than where things were in 1995 — it’s just that the bullhorn wasn’t there.”

For some, combating that bullhorn amounts to acting as if they can’t hear it. “Particularly when it’s a negative, toxic conversation, we don’t even engage,” says a TV marketing executive. “Like with toxic people, you try to not give it too much oxygen.” One principal concern is that reacting to these kinds of attacks risks alienating fans who are unhappy with creative choices about a franchise but haven’t tipped over into abusive behavior. So a studio may attempt to amplify friendlier voices instead. “We’ll reply to comments that are positive and elevate those things,” says the TV exec.

These very different things all become "toxic fandom" and interchangeable mush that's about how these people are all just "bad faith" actors.

[AnnoyedCanadian]

Nordic4tKnight

They really really hate LBGTQ+ people. People often forget that many Muslims are as socially conservative as evangelicals.

KingK

So shit like this is totally cool to go unchallenged in this thread?

[benji]

I agree with KingK, many Muslims are way more socially conservative than evangelicals.

[Nintex]

Imagine if went to a restaurant that served steak for 20 years, sometimes it's a bit overcooked but in general the customers like it and they also have those special beers you like and a fantastic dessert served by a smiling waitress that you always tip.

You come back 2 weeks later, the steak is still being served but the smiling waitress has been fired for some weird reason replaced by a retard in a wheelchair. Also all the chairs are rainbow colored now.

You return 2 weeks later, the dessert has been taken off the menu because not everyone liked cold things. It was too cold. The retard in the wheelchair repeats over and over again. You've noticed the tables are now rainbow colored too, the place is a sight for sore eyes.

You decide to go to a fish restaurant you used to enjoy, only to find the same thing. Retards in wheelchair serving the tables, rainbow colored interiors. 

Next week it's back to the steakhouse. You find that steaks are gone from the menu, replaced with salads. Just a bit of diversity sir, the guy in the wheelchair says.
At least there is still the beer, you quip.

3 days later you come back with your pals after reading glowing reviews about the "rebooted menu" for "modern audiences" from culinary critics. You try to ensure your friends this is gonna be good. Sure they serve salads everywhere now but at least this place still has beers. When you sit down you find out the beers are gone from the menu too. Oh well time for the food. There is just one item "Chefs special". You order it, have to pay in advance (about 200% more than what you used to pay) and the transbian in the wheelchair serves you a plate of shit. Just literally a turd they just crapped out on your plate. 

You scream and yell. "What the fuck is this!" 

As you walk out swearing with your friends the culinary critic walks into the restaurant and says to the transbian in the wheelchair: "Ugh, such toxic customers" as the transbian hands him an envelope with your cash.

And that my friends is why Toxic Fandoms exist.

[AnnoyedCanadian]

ZeoVagina

This is a blatantly Islamophobic post.

Bro, they'd throw your twink ass off a fucking building if they could. The fuck are you doing defending religious nuts?

[Steven Snell]

https://www.resetera.com/threads/toxic-fandom-how-hollywood-is-battling-fans-who-are-%E2%80%98just-out-for-blood%E2%80%99-%E2%80%94-from-social-media-boot-camps-to-superfan-focus-groups.1000101/page-2#post-129672807

ERA better get a say.

Would be pretty hilarious if ERA got a say in what goes into media, games, tv series etc. Probably 0 hetrosexuals involved in the production or in the cast.

[HaughtyFrank]

Oh I see Variety instantly blames the failure of The Acolyte on toxic fans and not that the show was garbage. This reminds me that good old Michael Pachter recently called the failure of star wars outlaws an "Incel victory"
https://www.fastcompany.com/91015694/dei-backlash-cynical-naive-diversity-equity-inclusion

Why is everyone just dumb as fuck? Woke shit succeeds if it's good shit, so maybe don't just make regular shit and then blame it on the audience for not eating the slop.

Although I admit it might be entertaining if they now end up overcorrecting the other way

[benji]

Did we make something crappy like the thousands of other TV shows that suck?



No, it must be our target audience are racists and homophobes.

[Nintex]

If Joker 2 is anything to go by they're just planting these pieces to try and explain away a tsunami of turds and bombs as "toxic fandoms" to investors I assume. 

[Uncle]

"review bombing" as something that's obviously bad on its face and needs to be stopped feels like the most poisoned well

like this rhetoric slipped past a sleepy populace who just let it persist

the idea that, if true, it means the thing is actually good and doesn't deserve a negative review...that's just another fucking opinion, it's a review to counter the other review! there's nothing objective about this! practically no basis to say "these reviews aren't legitimate"

"the bomber must not actually dislike the content, they just took issue with one specific thing and rated it poorly disingenously" - motherfucker if they feel strongly enough about that one specific thing, doesn't that make it a legitimate grievance? wouldn't you do the same in practically any other circumstance? "the burger patty was slimy and undercooked, but I have to be objective about this, every other element of the burger was made from excellent ingredients so I am begrudgingly forced to give it a mostly good review"

[HaughtyFrank]

Nordic4tKnight

They really really hate LBGTQ+ people. People often forget that many Muslims are as socially conservative as evangelicals.

KingK

So shit like this is totally cool to go unchallenged in this thread?

They really really hate LBGTQ+ people. People often forget that many Muslims are as socially conservative as evangelicals.

This is a blatantly Islamophobic post.

"Muslims are as conservative as evangelicals"


"THATS ISLAMOPHOBIC"

[Uncle]

the place is a sight for sore eyes.

you must review your knowledge of English idioms

[benji]

the idea that, if true, it means the thing is actually good and doesn't deserve a negative review...that's just another fucking opinion, it's a review to counter the other review! there's nothing objective about this! practically no basis to say "these reviews aren't legitimate"

My favorite thing about review bombing was that "analysis" some moron did and ResetERA.com gobbled up as "proof" of something or other and I noticed in the charts they made that all the shit that was "review bombed" negatively had already been "review bombed" with 10s by the fans but somehow those reviews were "legitimate" even though like 80% of all the total reviews were either 10s or 0s.

But all the framing was purely about the zeros and how their existence was some grave crime that all of us needed to search our souls about.