Journal of Other Forum Analysis

[benji]

Half the gaming podcast media thinks physically stealing from stores is ethically fine as long as it's a big corporation - so hardly shocking digital/ip theft isn't a big concern for them.

the same media that rightfully crucified Filip Miucin for plagiarism bullshit, I for once just wanted them to also protect devs

Advocating for workplace protections for devs might mean that games take longer to come out.

Do you want that?

Do you want games to take a longer time to come out? For what, just so Sally and Jared can see their families and be emotionally fulfilled?

Sounds like you're not a gamer.

I'm not sure that Nintendo winning this in court would even be a good thing for artists lol, we don't even like them shutting down fan games that directly use and repackage their IPs (actually highly illegal), now we want them to be able to shut down knockoffs as well for using their models as references? Careful what you wish for...

Slippery slope fallacy aside, if Nintendo can't protect their own extremely recognizable designs from being stolen in such a brazen manner legally, than what chance do artists with far less resources available to them have?

I'm not sure that Nintendo winning this in court would even be a good thing for artists lol, we don't even like them shutting down fan games that directly use and repackage their IPs (actually highly illegal), now we want them to be able to shut down knockoffs as well for using their models as references? Careful what you wish for...

ITS NOT REFERENCE FOR FUCK SAKE
Getting a model and doind the bare minimiun to change it is not being inspired, its not being referential, its stealing.

Slippery slope fallacy aside, if Nintendo can't protect their own extremely recognizable designs from being stolen in such a brazen manner legally, than what chance do artists with far less resources available to them have?

this is what people keep conveniently ignoring.

instead of thinking about the people in your lives who might be independent artists, y'all just wanna rally against The Pokemon Company and condone stealing from artists because they aren't making the type of game you want or aren't making it to your satisfaction

Terrible take from Andrea.

I respect the hell out of her but this isn't the first time she's brushed off a controversy with that kind of attitude.

Speaking of:

I don't understand why so many in games media are acting like this about the game. Really does a disservice to the issue at hand.

- the developer has openly discussed AI use for designs in the past
- the developer has a history of ripping off games, including a hilariously blatant copy of Breath of the Wild
- there is now evidence that the developer may have copied actual in-game Pokemon assets, which goes beyond "the designs look similar"

I don't see how criticizing the developer and this game is "cop shit," given all of that.

grubb is a fucking moron. caring about artistic integrity is not "cop shit", cishet white dude

When criticism of plagiarism is framed as 'stanning the big bad corporation' nuance like this doesn't matter. How the artists at Game Freak / Pokemon / Nintendo personally feel is irrelevant or just collateral damage.

Reading response Tweets is giving me brain damage.

It also hurts literally all artists who could design similar stuff. Why hire a talented fakemon designer like TemTem did when this shows it's far cheaper and more profitable to just steal from Pokémon directly and cut out the actual artists entirely

The best thing that has come out of this whole thing is that we can now give names and surnames to all the people in the media who don't care about artists. Very informative.

I'm not sure that Nintendo winning this in court would even be a good thing for artists lol, we don't even like them shutting down fan games that directly use and repackage their IPs (actually highly illegal), now we want them to be able to shut down knockoffs as well for using their models as references? Careful what you wish for...

As a person who already had their own artwork stolen, sold on t-shirts in Denmark through Amazon, and was told by Amazon's European legal department that unless I can provide a "patent" to my design then they won't do anything. No independent artist is going to have a patent for anything that they create so I was pretty much stuck with letting it go.

I absolutely, as an artist, want Palworld to be burned in court for this. People do not care nor want to try and understand how immensely frustrating it is for artists to have their concepts stolen and watch as nothing happens to the thief in question because so many people take copyright laws and infringement as something to be less concerned about knowing that artist's, unless backed by larger corporations, don't have the resources to fight it.

I'm not going to call out people specifically because you can't, but pretty much anyone with eyes can read the people who were downplaying that this is plagiarism (even after the models were started to being compared and posted) with some of the most insane bad faith arguments you've ever read in your life. Downplaying plagiarism IS defending/supporting it. We're talking about something that in most serious industries will get you blacklisted for life if you're caught doing it once. It's not defensible or downplayable.

And since I'm actually replying to you so it's okay, your other post is no different in this respect, it's a terrible bad faith argument at best to posit that we shouldn't want Nintendo to action actual plagiarism because fan games!!! And you are downplaying the plagiarism as just references when some of the models are so similar that it goes far beyond references.

And no one cares about the myriad of other knockoffs like TemTem or Coromon or Nexomon or whatever because those games put in the work with their Fakemons. This game didn't.

No, Nintendo protecting their artists isn't actually going to be "bad for artists". You know what's bad for artists? One of the biggest companies in the world going "oh well" to plagiarism from a multi-million dollar profit game and letting it slide. If goddamn lawyer assassin company Nintendo can't protect their artists, then who the hell can lmao.

Like, come on.

I'm not sure that Nintendo winning this in court would even be a good thing for artists lol, we don't even like them shutting down fan games that directly use and repackage their IPs (actually highly illegal), now we want them to be able to shut down knockoffs as well for using their models as references? Careful what you wish for...

What the fuck am I reading. There are many many many reasons why companies are not allowed to just take existing models from any game, edit them, and then sell a new game after having done so. Same with any kind of game asset. Code, textures, animations, VFX, level geometry, etc.

How the fuck did this thread evolve into "Actually, it's perfectly fine that they ripped assets from other games." Like is this what the Pokémon evolution of a tech bro is?

"Who said anything about Pokémon inspiration?"

Y'all go from "They're just inspired"

to "Yes they stole shit and here's why that's ok. 😃"

What kind of sunk cost fallacy is this?

Holy shit these people are so dumb and think they're so smart.

What they're advocating is literally what Mattel did to Bratz:

On December 10, 2006, Mattel sued MGA Entertainment for $500 million, alleging that the brand's creator, Carter Bryant, was working for Mattel when he developed its original idea/concept.[21] On July 17, 2008, a federal jury ruled that Bryant had created the Bratz concept while he was working for Mattel, despite MGA's claim that Bryant had never been employed by Mattel at the time and Bryant's assertion that he had designed the Bratz concepts between two separate periods of employment at Mattel. The jury also ruled that MGA and its CEO Isaac Larian were liable for converting Mattel property for its own use and intentionally interfering with the contractual duties owed by Bryant to Mattel.[22]

On December 3, 2008, U.S. District Judge Stephen G. Larson granted a permanent injunction requested by Mattel against MGA.[23] Subsequently, on December 10, 2009, the U.S. Court of Appeals for the Ninth Circuit granted MGA an immediate stay of the injunction, thereby halting the impending recall of all Bratz products, ensuring that retailers would be allowed to continue to sell the Bratz products through at least the Court's final ruling on the matter. In its initial statement, the Court suggested Larson's previous ruling was "draconian" and had gone too far in awarding ownership of the entire Bratz franchise to Mattel. The Court of Appeals also ordered MGA and Mattel to resolve their dispute out of court.[24] Isaac Larian and MGA Entertainment issued a statement that "the Court's stay is good news for all Bratz fans and for anyone who cares about fair competition."[25]

On July 22, 2010, the Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals declared that ownership of the Bratz franchise belonged to MGA Entertainment. The Court Of Appeals rejected the District Court's original ruling for Mattel, where MGA Entertainment was ordered to forfeit the entire Bratz brand — including all registered copyrights and trademarks of the Bratz name — to Mattel. The panel from the Court of Appeals said Judge Larson had abused his discretion with his ruling for Mattel, concluding that Bryant's employment agreement could have, but did not necessarily, cover ideas as it did designs, processes, computer programs, and formulae, which are all more concrete.[26][27]

In addition to the litigation for ownership and control of Bratz' on October 20, 2009, artist Bernard "Butch" Belair filed a new design infringement lawsuit against both Mattel and MGA in Manhattan federal court, seeking unspecified damages. Belair claimed that his copyright designs of young women with "large heads, oval eyes, small bodies and large feet," which he had created for shoe designer house Steve Madden, were "pilfered" when Carter Bryant, during his 2008 court testimony, testified that he had been inspired by Steve Madden shoe ads which he saw in Seventeen magazine. Belair says neither MGA nor Mattel "sought or obtained permission ... to copy, reproduce, create derivative works from or distribute" his "copyrighted" work.[28] In 2011, MGA prevailed over Belair, with the summary judgment stating that, "Belair cannot monopolize the abstract concept of an absurdly large-headed, long limbed, attractive, fashionable woman."[29]

This was despite the fact that BARBIE was literally "stolen" from a german doll in the first place.

And we already had this case in video games:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Universal_City_Studios,_Inc._v._Nintendo_Co.,_Ltd.

[benji]

I mean, there's an ethical argument to be hosted (outside of here) about the anticapitalist effects of piracy and theft from large corporations and how that, in turn, affects artists in and out of the corporate sphere. But frankly in this context, and on this specific forum, I find it trite.

It's one thing to not care that GameFreak got got because they'll be fine; it's another thing to cheer this on under the context that Palworld's success has any notable positive impact on the world from an anticapitalist perspective, when frankly their brazeness at potentially stealing free fanworks doesn't engender any confidence in me as an anticapitalist artist. If you wanted me to point out an example of keyboard activism, it would be Palworld fans insisting that their game is somehow a thorn in the eye of capitalism, when frankly taking capital in order to generate millions in profits that will likely be consolidated as personal wealth as just another form of capitalism. I mean hell, where were these specific Palworld when Activision Blizzard employees trying to unionize? Not actually on the picket line, I can tell you that. This attempt to reframe the shamelessness as actually politically noble is corny as hell.

Like I'd rather people just say that they don't care about the stolen assets, and subsequently the artists who made those assets, specifically because they have an issue with GameFreak's shitty output as of late. That's at least more honest.

How do I keep thinking she can't be explicitly more ignorant than she has been.

[Uncle]

wow

[benji]

That thread is so incoherent I stopped reading it despite the hilarious bad takes. If you point out it's not legal infringement they cry about how it's plagiarism and nobody is talking about legal stuff when the same posters are literally saying Nintendo needs to protect their "artists" somehow. If it's just plagiarism then why should I give a fuck? Boo hoo, poor Pokemon, shutting the fuck up is free.

[Boredfrom]

The best way I can describe it would be like if I asked gamers "Why are you playing games when you could just see the ending on YouTube?" Since the goal is to beat the game, it must be presumed that everything before the ending is an unnecessary inhibitor to that goal. The easy rebuttal to this is, obviously, "playing games is fun." But trying to tell folks like this that "literally making art fulfills me" and it's through one ear and out the other.

People will not understand that because it doesn’t make sense. You are confusing audience with creators. People enjoy seeing pictures, people enjoy playing video games; a small subset of people also enjoy drawing pictures and others enjoy creating video games.

[benji]

"But but but but but you mocked people downplaying Professor Homosexual and defending Harvard"

Yeah, academic fraud is different. It matters in academia because of the academic system. It's a violation of the academic process not some societal crime.

[Uncle]

and if palworld had been submitted as final coursework, they might be given an F and get kicked out of the school





...do we drill academic plagiarism into peoples' heads far too much and they confuse that with some universal legal/ethical constant?

scratch that, is this a plot by large companies to use the education system to convince everyone that the big corpos own far more than they do?

[Boredfrom]

1705981873[/url]']
"But but but but but you mocked people downplaying Professor Homosexual and defending Harvard"

Yeah, academic fraud is different. It matters in academia because of the academic system. It's a violation of the academic process not some societal crime.

But Nep, you openly hate modern society and you have expressed how you think is a sham.

[Hap Shaughnessy]

https://www.resetera.com/threads/colombian-graphic-designer-tricks-press-to-believe-she-worked-on-studio-ghibli-latest-movie.808002/

She should be the president of Harvard.

[benji]

and if palworld had been submitted as final coursework, they might be given an F and get kicked out of the school

But on the other hand if they cited it as Pokemon, something legally they couldn't do in video games...

[HaughtyFrank]

Hilarious if real

[benji]

Nepenthe on ResetERA.com: PROTECT THE CORPORATE ARTISTS, ANTICAPITALISM DOESN'T MEAN YOU CAN USE IP

Nepenthe on Twitter:

[Boredfrom]

and if palworld had been submitted as final coursework, they might be given an F and get kicked out of the school





...do we drill academic plagiarism into peoples' heads far too much and they confuse that with some universal legal/ethical constant?

scratch that, is this a plot by large companies to use the education system to convince everyone that the big corpos own far more than they do?

Being fair, I feel half of the people bitching about Palworld genuinely think TPC’s artists see any profit from their designs beyond the work for hire contract they did. And you are also asking for coherence to a bunch of people that think that being socialist is compatible with their hipster lifestyle.

[kaleidoscopium]

Colin Moriarty talks directly about Resetera on the latest episode of sacred symbols because of a fan write in. Thanks them directly for driving in new viewers because of their insane reaction to Dustin and banning Gene Park 😂 

At 12:12

https://youtu.be/zvkaH7s9Ye4?si=m3U_Qnf_4SFUIjK8

[Boredfrom]

Nepenthe on ResetERA.com: PROTECT THE ARTISTS, ANTICAPITALISM DOESN'T MEAN YOU CAN USE IP

Nepenthe on Twitter:

Didn’t know she owned Lucio.

[benji]

Colin Moriarty talks directly about Resetera on the latest episode of sacred symbols because of a fan write in. Thanks them directly for driving in new viewers because of their insane reaction to Dustin and banning Gene Park 😂 

At 12:12

https://youtu.be/zvkaH7s9Ye4?t=740

Pinned by Last Stand Media

@19RoFlMao19
3 days ago
Just wanna say welcome to the guy who wrote in about being on resetera and is now a Patreon here. I had a similar story to you early last year when Hogwarts Legacy was coming out. That's when I joined LSM and it's probably one of the best decisions of my life.
Cheers!

It gets worse, at 13:30, they openly admit to being Nazis and using Nazi dogwhistles.

[Hap Shaughnessy]

https://www.resetera.com/threads/polygon-anime-is-huge-heres-data-on-whos-consuming-it.808251/page-4?post=117994644#post-117994644

User banned (permanent): inflammatory accusations, long history of inflammatory commentary

My guess for the breakdown would have been -

Paedophiles - 50%
Japan Culture Experts - 25%
"Ephebophiles" - 25%

[kaleidoscopium]

Colin Moriarty talks directly about Resetera on the latest episode of sacred symbols because of a fan write in. Thanks them directly for driving in new viewers because of their insane reaction to Dustin and banning Gene Park 😂 

At 12:12

https://youtu.be/zvkaH7s9Ye4?t=740

Pinned by Last Stand Media

@19RoFlMao19
3 days ago
Just wanna say welcome to the guy who wrote in about being on resetera and is now a Patreon here. I had a similar story to you early last year when Hogwarts Legacy was coming out. That's when I joined LSM and it's probably one of the best decisions of my life.
Cheers!

It gets worse, at 13:30, they openly admit to being Nazis and using Nazi dogwhistles.

Honestly while I don’t like all of their shows, they do have quite a few good panel podcasts if they’re your jam. So I’m also glad resetera had another retard moment and introduced me to something I would haven’t gotten into on my own.

[Hap Shaughnessy]

https://www.resetera.com/threads/nintendo-youtuber-chuggaaconroy-accused-of-sexual-harassment.806058/page-3?post=117692382#post-117692382

User Banned (2 Weeks): Armchair Diagnosis of Mental Health; Ableist Rhetoric

The way he kept on messaging even after she stopped responding makes me think he might be on the spectrum. I think if she told him to knock it off he might have, but i'm not saying she had to or even should have done that or anything. It's a shitty situation and not responding at all is totally valid.

What he did is still gross.

[Boredfrom]

https://www.resetera.com/threads/polygon-anime-is-huge-heres-data-on-whos-consuming-it.808251/page-4?post=117994644#post-117994644

User banned (permanent): inflammatory accusations, long history of inflammatory commentary

My guess for the breakdown would have been -

Paedophiles - 50%
Japan Culture Experts - 25%
"Ephebophiles" - 25%

Deserved ban. 

[benji]

Didn’t know she owned Lucio.

FACT CHECK: It's not plagiarism, it's homage and besides Blizzard isn't doing it forcing her to make it. Also she made all the art herself rather than typing "make me Lucio" into an AI prompt.

[BIONIC]

https://www.resetera.com/threads/polygon-anime-is-huge-heres-data-on-whos-consuming-it.808251/page-4?post=117994644#post-117994644

User banned (permanent): inflammatory accusations, long history of inflammatory commentary

My guess for the breakdown would have been -

Paedophiles - 50%
Japan Culture Experts - 25%
"Ephebophiles" - 25%

Hit dogs hollering?


Speaking of

https://www.resetera.com/threads/polygon-anime-is-huge-heres-data-on-whos-consuming-it.808251/page-4?post=117994644#post-117994644

User banned (permanent): inflammatory accusations, long history of inflammatory commentary

My guess for the breakdown would have been -

Paedophiles - 50%
Japan Culture Experts - 25%
"Ephebophiles" - 25%

Deserved ban. 

[Uncle]

[Boredfrom]

Bionic, you are hilariously predictable.


Real talk: I hope you are able to deal with your past traumas.

[Uncle]

what about my expected future traumas

[BIONIC]

https://www.resetera.com/threads/the-sandy-cheeks-spongebob-movie-leaked.808344/?post=117999699#post-117999699

The only thing I hope this movie does is bring back the Spongebob and Sandy sexual tension.

Always enjoyed that element of his character and felt stripping it was the beginning of them transforming Spongebob into a soulless merchandising machine.

It wasn't sudden as S2 and S3 dropped it and were still good but I felt it grounded him.

An actual adult wrote this

[Boredfrom]

what about my expected future traumas

Business As Usual

Spoiler:  (click to show)(click to hide)

[benji]

This should be the proper take in those threads but they're all wedded to upholding the monopoly corporations power to grant further monopolies uber alles.

Spoiler:  (click to show)(click to hide)

I don't think this is inconsistent, the logical endpoint of their views is a totalitarian state you just have to stamp Disney on the front of the police uniforms and they'll be fine with it. This state having monopoly ownership of all property would "protect IP" after all, it's not like you could publish your own copy of Mao's Little Red Book in China. (Well, not legally.)

[Boredfrom]

1705984199[/url]']

1705983789[/url]']

This should be the proper take in those threads but they're all wedded to upholding the monopoly corporations power to grant further monopolies uber alles.

Spoiler:  (click to show)(click to hide)

I don't think this is inconsistent, the logical endpoint of their views is a totalitarian state you just have to stamp Disney on the front of the police uniforms and they'll be fine with it. This state having monopoly ownership of all property would "protect IP" after all, it's not like you could publish your own copy of Mao's Little Red Book in China. (Well, not legally.)

While I think they want an authoritarian state if they got their way… in this case is just “Nintendo+Pokemon=Childhood=Good” rather than anything else beyond that. They probably see Nintendo and TPC as some sort of underdogs against the “adult world” of steam and tech bros stealing from artists.

[benji]

Looks like the capitalists are trying to cover up the Palworld scandal: