Journal of Other Forum Analysis (Volume II, Issue 1)

[HardcoreRetro]

It’s a game that has you forced to play as a white heterosexual male protagonist. a game that pays small lip service to minorities. 

Henry can suck some cock in this one. Maybe the balls don't touch and he says "no homo" keeping him straight though.

[Ethan]

It’s a game that has you forced to play as a white heterosexual male protagonist. a game that pays small lip service to minorities. 

Henry can suck some cock in this one. Maybe the balls don't touch and he says "no homo" keeping him straight though.

I had a stream in the background last night and in the (very long) tutorial, from his reactions and dialogue options, they pretty much go out of their way to make Henry look like a closeted gay in love with his best friend:
-Is annoyed when his "buddy/master" talk about chasing girls
-Doesn't want to discuss his fling with Therese with his buddies, either saying that nothing happened or that he doesn't kiss and tell
-Is uncomfortable with taking a lake bath with his "buddy/master"
-Is very annoyed that his master want to sneak on some nubile bohemian girls bathing in the lake.

The writing seems decent. Animations are great. Gameplay looks like classic euro jank, though there's about 10 minutes of it in the first 3  hours.

[DocWager]

What!?!? Well off to the bin with you!

[EaldNarche]

It’s a game that has you forced to play as a white heterosexual male protagonist. a game that pays small lip service to minorities. 

Henry can suck some cock in this one. Maybe the balls don't touch and he says "no homo" keeping him straight though.

I had a stream in the background last night and in the (very long) tutorial, from his reactions and dialogue options, they pretty much go out of their way to make Henry look like a closeted gay in love with his best friend:
-Is annoyed when his "buddy/master" talk about chasing girls
-Doesn't want to discuss his fling with Therese with his buddies, either saying that nothing happened or that he doesn't kiss and tell
-Is uncomfortable with taking a lake bath with his "buddy/master"
-Is very annoyed that his master want to sneak on some nubile bohemian girls bathing in the lake.

The writing seems decent. Animations are great. Gameplay looks like classic euro jank, though there's about 10 minutes of it in the first 3  hours.

I guess now I'm gonna have to play it.
 

[Shecky Fragbaum]

Oh God. Here we go again -

https://www.resetera.com/threads/rant-vent-im-fed-up-at-feeling-lesbians-arent-wanted-in-rpgs.1100052/

This motherfucker needs to be banned.

You ain’t a lesbian my man, you’re a guy who likes women, that makes you heterosexual.

Sorry if that’s a tough pill to swallow.

Tougher than moose estrogen?

[DavidCroquet]

https://www.resetera.com/threads/50501-movement-us-nation-wide-protest-feb-5th.1099929/page-2#post-135326364

I want to repeat something someone posted on Reddit for this:

Bring the American flag

Personally I have not liked the sight of the flag for a long while, since the right essentially took it over, but I think I need to get over this. America can be better and we should fly the flag to represent the country we want and not let the fascists claim ownership of it for the country they want.

If nothing else it is great for optics for all the uninformed people who may be observing the protests and forming opinions on them.

"Hey guys, hear me out...I've got an insane idea. What if, while advocating our causes, we go out of our way to present an appearance of having even the slightest affection for the country where we live and hope to inspire change? (you can still hate america, we're just doing it for optics)"

[Jansen]

New gunpla get 

[kaleidoscopium]

But Stevarow told us that Melody won’t promote it and is ashamed of asking for anything

Edit: 7 donations in the past 24 hours, 4 in the last 12 hours. No goal listed anymore so we have no way to track how much it actually is unfortunately.

[Jansen]

The "partner" is going to wake up one day and put a pillow over their dumbass

[Besticus Maximus]

Leave the dog alone dickhead

[DavidCroquet]

"even though my partner doesn't see it that way". 

This is dog erasure.

[kaleidoscopium]

Could be a discord “partner”, very likely even.

[benji]

https://www.resetera.com/threads/trump-to-sign-executive-order-banning-trans-athletes-from-women%E2%80%99s-and-girls%E2%80%99-sports.1100592/

Every trans woman and girl in the country told that there's no point having a love of or passion for playing sport because they aren't allowed. That such dreams are not for them because of who they are. It's just vile.

It's also about ensuring we don't become role models to win the hearts of the average person. They want to make sure we don't get a trans Jesse Owens.

Have they tried joining the men's team rather than demanding a spot from a girl/woman?

If I say what should happen to him, I'd be disappeared.

Forgive me if this is offensive but is there any potential avenue with trans women making headway into men's sports?
Randomly heard it from my dad a couple weeks ago, him going "I have no problem with trans girls playing sports, but you were born as a man so it's more fair to play with men" and it had sounded wrong but in a way I legit hadn't really heard before. Like in my mind it reads like both keeping athletic aspirations while also breaking down barriers of gender expression though I have no idea if it actually works like that (and obviously the right-wingers would prefer you just disappear entirely).

I'm trying to think through alternatives because clearly trans women in women's sports is a massive no-go in this country, too many people are legitimately terrified of cis men transitioning just to swipe golf trophies and shit and I just don't know where else this can go here.

No, trans women are competitive with cis women as a result of how HRT affects our bodies. Your dad is unfortunately ignorant to the science behind medical transition and hormones.

If they don't take any hrt, sure. But your going to need an incredible athlete and someone emotionally indestructible to stick with it with all the transphobia and hate they'll have to swim through.

And while someone like that might make someone like your Dad hate trans people less, it will only reinforce the falsely held notion that being born a man gives you physical advantage in every sport forever no matter how much hrt you do.

So... probably mixed results there.

Edit: My rhetoric above was thoughtless. Sorry. I was trying to show the problems with the concept but didn't stop to think what exploring it like this, or echoing the language of bigots, would read like for trans people and our allies. Since I've been quoted I am leaving it untouched vs editing posts pointing out the issues with it.

I don't believe that a trans woman would be allowed to succeed like this any more than she would be allowed to succeed in women's sports.

It would still challenge the fragile masculinity of the people behind executive orders like this. No amount of bending will ever be good enough to a bigot.

It certainly wouldn't get any bigot to admit that trans women are women.

And in case anyone needs to read it from me:
Trans women are born women.

I mean can it even be banned? Last i checked sports were not a government program, they're private.

other people already went into the point about trans woman not really having a competitive advantage. But to give another point of thought. I think what can help thinking about it is imagine a cis woman, who would be in a similar situation if you would suggest the same solution. Lets say a cis woman had some hormonal issue where she had too much testosterone for a while which lead to some changes in the body. and she fixed that hormone imbalance by now and there is no proof that she still has an advantage. do you think a sensible solution for that would be to only be allowed to participate in man sport from now on? Because that would basically be what that would be asking of trans woman.

The whole thing gets even worse when you consider that they are trying to make it illegal to get trans healthcare as a minor (and even adults but they are pushing the minor angle more). Which basically means "oh you can't participate into woman sport because of the puberty you went through but we will make it illegal as well that you can do anything against going through that puberty"

Aren't there multiple scientific studies providing evidence that people born as a man have significant strength and bone density advantage over people born as a woman, even after hrt? Personally I think there are far more pressing issues than banking trans women from sports, but I don't think it's a false notion to say that there is a biological advantage, on average, for people born male. Perhaps I need to re-review the literature, though.

I mean can it even be banned? Last i checked sports were not a government program, they're private.

I have to assume that "banning" in this case means "imposing strict fines and penalties on any major sports governance bodies that allow trans women to participate, and suing the leaders of those organizations".

people born as a man have significant strength and bone density advantage over people born as a woman, even after hrt?

Nope.

people born as a man have significant strength and bone density advantage over people born as a woman, even after hrt?

https://www.resetera.com/threads/ioc-funded-study-shows-female-trans-athletes-at-a-disadvantage-in-key-metrics-compared-to-cis-counterparts.843732/

No, there aren't. In fact the scientific literature says the exact opposite.
Hell, transphobes themselves love to use the fact that HRT reduces your bone density as one of the supposed reasons they are against transition

I don't think much of the world is ready for my take on this topic. Which I can distill down to this.
1. No results based evidence trans women that have kept their T levels in female range for a year or two have any advantage.
2. Even if it is an advantage, why do people suddenly agree that it's an unfair one?

It's like all the furor over the volleyball player people were speculating was trans.
'She's tall and that's an advantage! And she only got that tall because she went through male puberty! Unfair!'
But she isn't even the tallest player on her team. And most of the people on the team complaining are taller.
'Yeah, but that wasn't something they could do anything about.'
I think the trans player would have probably happily skipped out on male puberty if she could have.

We see particular sports where a disproportionate number of the elite players are black. Given all the other disadvantages black people face... lets say that being black gives you an advantage in particular sports. I say 'so hecking what?' right?

We *pretend* that sports are a place where class doesn't help you, where everything is secondary to physical ability but it isn't true at all.

Even if trans women have some physical advantages, we only need to look to the real world to see that they don't overcome any other disadvantages physical or otherwise. Trans women don't make up a disproportionate amount of elite level athletes in sports that allow them to play.

And we shouldn't need to know anything else when asking if we should ban someone from sports for something they can't change about themselves.

wouldn't this let trans men that have been on testosterone for years play in women's sports since they're AFAB or is the right just going to continue ignoring their existence

Literally attacking minorities among minorities for no reason.

I'll look at that, thanks. I quickly looked at Google Scholar and the first hit from recent years initially seems to contradict the IOC study, but I'll read more into it. Genuinely not trying to offend and certainly not trying to support Trump's ban as it's clear he has no concern in the "sanctity" of a sport and is just a bigot

It's not just the IOC study, I linked a comprehensive review of existing literature by the Canadian Centre for Ethics in Sport that found:
https://www.cces.ca/sites/default/files/content/docs/pdf/transgenderwomenathletesandelitesport-ascientificreview-e-final.pdf

So not quite sure what you're looking to achieve by running to Google Scholar to pluck an article from 2020 that itself has a number of letters to its editor, noting:

This is where I'm at on this. Though to be fair, this is where I'm at on a lot of his shitty executive orders. So much are blatantly unconstitutional or not going to be followed I find it hard to care.

But that doesn't mean organizations won't comply anyways :\

How does that even work? Last I checked the President isn't also the head of every sports regulatory board, so is this mostly just posturing? Maybe national teams, but even then I don't think he has any authority over them (not to say people won't just go along with it because that's what's been happening so far), but independent sports? Like are the police going to show up at my local city softball game to be "sure"?

A fun fact about how being trans brings with it other disadvantages.

I tried to find a study that looked at trans women's bone density before and after transitioning and as usual, the science is extremely limited on this. The one I stumbled on, had a very surprising finding (though all the caveats on low sample size, etc etc etc need apply). Again this could be statistical fluke, but we'll talk about that.

The average bone density of the participants in the study *pre* transition was below that of the average cis woman. The study made a clear point of saying it couldn't explain why that was, and that the sample size was too small to conclude that all trans women have bad bone density. Plenty of other socio economic factors can impact bone density like diet, exercise all of that.

When the people in the study had been on HRT for a while, their bone density levelled off in line with cis women's, which was actually *an increase*.

Now would this apply to people already at relatively high levels in sport etc etc? Again, hard to say. But it certainly shows that the water is *extremely* muddy when it comes to whether there's any bone density advantage in trans women.

And that's without even diving into how much of an advantage bone density offers.

And of course, *always* ignoring that one sport's physiological advantages is another's disadvantage, and that people tend to gravitate towards sports that our bodies are better suited for.

If we allowed trans women into sports, you'd absolutely see sports like women's basketball have a disproportionate number of trans players at the elite level, but you'd barely see any in women's gymnastics.

I don't follow this stuff too closely but it always seems it's on and on about protecting women's sport etc. Are there any examples of it going the other way? I feel like trans-men and how they feel/are effected get ignored in all this.

Not trying to make you feel dogpiled here, but as a rule of thumb to any question regard trans medicine along these lines...

"Aren't there lots of studies showing..."

The answer is going to be 'nope'. Because very few people are studying us. We aren't a big enough group to seem lucrative to medicine producers. Our best hope is grant funded studies, and the reality of today is that Trump and co just ordered the CDC to delete whatever papers they'd produced on us. Because they want to write the narrative.

Trans women *aren't* dominating sports. There's lots of reasons for that. The main one is bigotry. Which effects us in far more walks of life than trying to find the same quality of sports coaching or to be accepted as part of a team or allowed to use high quality training facilities without being forced to strip naked in front of men.

Let's say being black really is an advantage in sports. There's certainly much more data to support that notion.

I say, for everything else black people have suffered and do suffer... let them have the sports advantage.

It's an overall message. Even if a high school for instance says they aren't going to follow this the trans athlete would be treated like shit (already happens). Opponents might boycott playing them (already happens). And the pressure to follow what is coming from the federal government will be even higher.

This just completely amplifies the message that it's unfair. So all the issues currently faced just get more difficult to navigate. And most organizations I would assume as simply going to choose not to fight that battle.

It's crazy there are so many cis men (I'm one of them) who despite all these "advantages" would have no chance at competing in low levels let alone elite.

I played three sports in high school (football basketball track) and I would have had no chance at competing at the college level in any women's sport. It's not like an army of cis men could simply pop into women's sports and dominate.

Based on the article, this will be related to Title IX so they're targeting school sports specifically. My vague and likely too overly simplified understanding is that the EO will probably say that 1. discrimination based on being trans isn't really discrimination, and 2. trans students participating in sports is inherently discrimination against cis participants. Or something along those lines.

This is all to say it's making a show of arbitrarily ruining the lives of an incredibly small number of young trans people.

Yes, of course it's Title IX (which specifies sex in its language) related and school sports. How fucking stupid are these people that they didn't even think of school sports?  

And I love the "trans men" handwringing as if it's somehow an issue if they want to fail at making men's teams and that if they want to dope then they can't play sports with girls who aren't doping.  

Also: , they will make up complete fucking nonsense instead of accept that there are two sexes in humans and they've been well studied.

edit: I should have addressed this part specifically:

Based on the article, this will be related to Title IX so they're targeting school sports specifically. My vague and likely too overly simplified understanding is that the EO will probably say that 1. discrimination based on being trans isn't really discrimination, and 2. trans students participating in sports is inherently discrimination against cis participants. Or something along those lines.

No, it won't have to do any of that, just enforce Title IX. The federal government already levies punishments on schools that aren't following Title IX guidelines to provide an equivalent number of athletic opportunities for women. It's done this for decades, it mandates schools shut down men's athletic teams all the time. They can simply punish schools that allow trans "girls/women" on teams as violating the requirement to have this whenever a male is allowed to take a female's spot.

The Biden Administration refused to do this by interpreting the word "sex" to mean an individual's gender identity. (Even though the word in Title IX can't mean this as gender identity didn't yet exist as a concept when it was passed. Plus that whole thing where sex is a material part of reality.)

[Besticus Maximus]

Fat nerds who were never good at sports lecturing people about how they should feel about, play and organise sports is peak internet activity.

[kaleidoscopium]

On Kingdom Come Deliverance 2 selling 1M in the first day 

That's unfortunate.

gross

Era really love signal boosting this game.

not even resetera regulars can be unhappy about this news

https://www.resetera.com/threads/kingdom-come-deliverance-ii-hits-1-million-copies-sold-within-24-hours.1100826/#post-135363384

[DavidCroquet]

yeah, crazy that an outgroup would show up to dictate an ingroup's needs for them. 

[Boredfrom]

not even resetera regulars can be unhappy about this news

[Steven Snell]

And in case anyone needs to read it from me:

Trans women are born women.

Yeah right. You only figure out you're a "woman" several years later. Especially that weird looking cunt it probably took 30-40 years ffs.

[benji]

Fat nerds who were never good at sports lecturing people about how they should feel about, play and organise sports is peak internet activity.

It's about ethics in sport competition, chud.

I hate it so much since a lot of supporters of this don't realize it's an attack on sport competition. Some assholes will scream for testing when their favorite loses to someone with some facial hair or whatever bs.

[killamajig]

[Ethan]

They always bring up that dogshit Canadian Centre for Ethics in Sport "study". It's literally the only study they have. And it's dogshit.

FFS:

Key Sociocultural Findings

•     Biomedical studies are overvalued in sports policies in comparison to social sciences studies.
  
•     Policies that impact trans women’s participation in elite sport are the continuation of a long history of exclusion of women from competitive sport – an exclusion that resulted in the introduction of a ‘women’s’ category of sport in the first place.
  
•     Many trans “inclusion” sport policies use arbitrary bounds that are not evidence based.
  
•     Cissexism, transphobia, transmisogyny and overlapping systems of oppression need to be recognized and addressed for trans women to participate in elite sport.

[Uncle]

And in case anyone needs to read it from me:

Trans women are born women.

Yeah right. You only figure out you're a "woman" several years later. Especially that weird looking cunt it probably took 30-40 years ffs.

so later when you detransition, does that mean you were actually born a man all along? the factual binary state in which you were born is in flux until you reach a final decision?

[Alpacx]

No AdVaNtAgE
https://www.world.rugby/the-game/player-welfare/guidelines/transgender#SummaryforTransgenderWomen

Transgender women may not currently play women's rugby
Why? Because of the size, force- and power-producing advantages conferred by testosterone during puberty and adolescence, and the resultant player welfare risks this creates

Biological Advantages from Testosterone

Resultant Performance Differences

Significant increases in total body mass
Significant increases in lean/muscle mass and muscle density
Reduction in body fat mass, improving strength and power-to-weight ratio
Increased  height, changed  dimensions of important  levers,  greater  bone density
Increased haemoglobin levels
Increased heart and lung size

It has been proposed that the suppression of testosterone for a period of 12 months is sufficient to remove the biological differences that create performance differences summarised above.

Research contradicts this, consistently showing that total mass, muscle mass and/or strength are reduced by at most 5% to 10% when testosterone is suppressed to levels in the female female range, for a period of 12 months. With the additional factor of training, either before or during the period of testosterone suppression, it is expected that baseline/pre levels for these variables will be higher, and that training will attenuate the decline in these variables with testosterone reduction. The consequence is that given the size of the biological differences prior to testosterone suppression, this comparatively small effect of testosterone reduction allows substantial and meaningful differences to remain

[kaleidoscopium]

It's weird and almost seems like it's intentional. Such an unfortunate thing. I don't understand why some games get banned from discussion due to problematic creators but not others.

I'm not fishing for a ban. I'm just genuinely confused by the lack of consistency.

https://www.resetera.com/threads/kingdom-come-deliverance-ii-hits-1-million-copies-sold-within-24-hours.1100826/#post-135364431

Wish b dumbs would come out and say it, the cyberpunk/Hogwarts legacy bans made them look retarded and added “extra work” for the moderators when it didn’t need to happen. Especially given how objectively progressive both games are and how well they sold. KCD2 is strangely in the same boat already and they aren’t doing it. 

Also moba told them to knock it off or their funds will get cut


Edit: apparently it’s discussed in the community bitching thread, anyone have an account that can share what they say?

https://www.resetera.com/threads/constructive-community-discussion-2024.859116/page-36

[killamajig]

And in case anyone needs to read it from me:

Trans women are born women.

Yeah right. You only figure out you're a "woman" several years later. Especially that weird looking cunt it probably took 30-40 years ffs.

so later when you detransition, does that mean you were actually born a man all along? the factual binary state in which you were born is in flux until you reach a final decision?

[killamajig]

No AdVaNtAgE
https://www.world.rugby/the-game/player-welfare/guidelines/transgender#SummaryforTransgenderWomen

Transgender women may not currently play women's rugby
Why? Because of the size, force- and power-producing advantages conferred by testosterone during puberty and adolescence, and the resultant player welfare risks this creates

Biological Advantages from Testosterone

Resultant Performance Differences

Significant increases in total body mass
Significant increases in lean/muscle mass and muscle density
Reduction in body fat mass, improving strength and power-to-weight ratio
Increased  height, changed  dimensions of important  levers,  greater  bone density
Increased haemoglobin levels
Increased heart and lung size

It has been proposed that the suppression of testosterone for a period of 12 months is sufficient to remove the biological differences that create performance differences summarised above.

Research contradicts this, consistently showing that total mass, muscle mass and/or strength are reduced by at most 5% to 10% when testosterone is suppressed to levels in the female female range, for a period of 12 months. With the additional factor of training, either before or during the period of testosterone suppression, it is expected that baseline/pre levels for these variables will be higher, and that training will attenuate the decline in these variables with testosterone reduction. The consequence is that given the size of the biological differences prior to testosterone suppression, this comparatively small effect of testosterone reduction allows substantial and meaningful differences to remain

Why y'all hate strong women?

Spoiler:  (click to show)(click to hide)

[kaleidoscopium]

Because doing it in the past caused massive headaches for mods. Because this doesn't come down to some scientific measuring of problematic elements - yes, Cyberpunk had some questionable things within the game itself (e.g. the posters), and combined that with a social media presence that was boosting GG-y rhetoric, but containing it to a single OT was also a call made in response to a messy set of circumstances that unfolded on this forum; yes, Harry Potter is singularly enriching a singularly anti-trans force in this world, and is inherently infused with her bigoted instincts to boot, but again, the decision to ban the IP really came down to a long, long discussion lead by trans members of the site, in which the groundwork was long laid for this forum to stop being a home to the IP.

The need for consistency is so often misplaced, anyway, but that's especially true in this case. What it comes down to is that the various stakeholders aren't calling for a ban in the same way as they did for Cyberpunk and Harry Potter. Mods don't have the same bandwidth for it, the same robust discussions aren't being had, the circumstances aren't the same. There's never been a pretense of banning all games with problematic creators.

https://www.resetera.com/threads/kingdom-come-deliverance-ii-hits-1-million-copies-sold-within-24-hours.1100826/page-2#post-135365205

Tl;dr trans mafia like Kyuuji aren’t being annoying and harassing people to get Kingdom Come Deliverance 2 banned

[Snoopy]

Jesus. You just dodged a bullet America

Fuck if I would have known about this earlier I would have taken off work! State capital is quite a few hours from me sadly. My violent ass being there might not be the best thing at this point though lol

https://www.resetera.com/threads/50501-movement-us-nation-wide-protest-feb-5th.1099929/page-3

[DavidCroquet]

"stakeholders aren't calling for a ban, like the other times"
"...I would like a ban"
"Quiet you!"

[kaleidoscopium]

Would love to see them wrestle with the idea of how all of their banned games are some of the most positive LGBT representations in gaming