Journal of Other Forum Analysis

[Polident]

So basically all this multiverse shit is a result of Disney buying Fox and it’s a prolonged way to reboot the Earth-1 world with mutants and fantastic four? They’re gonna have to do it again when Disney inevitably buys WB and rolls DC characters into the mix.

It’s fun how the messiest parts of the comic book industry bled into the movies.

[Boredfrom]

I will say, the initial Krypton stuff was actually kind of cool, I will give you that. 

And it was not a fucking retreat to the old films like Superman Returns, fuck you Bryan Singer.

[benji]

You can get no money for predicting The Fantastic Four are going to through the new Avengers movies wind up in the MCU universe and they'll probably use Secret Wars to effectively announce mutants. They'll hint that some characters might be coming back with new actors but they really don't need to do this for a while because FF/X-Men can sustain things for an entire set of Phases, the B-Tier Avengers are fine for backups for them so they can wait on bringing back the main ones. All three of these groups are much better than the original set for COSMIC MARVEL shit which only really had the Guardians to use before.

You can tell Feige wants to use the Celestials and Elders for stuff and FF is a way better vehicle for those than Eternals or cameos in Guardians.

[Besticus Maximus]

They're just making it up as they're going along 

[Polident]

I’ll defend Superman Returns a little because it’s in many ways moving beyond nostalgia is the message. It does it through almost cloying levels of nostalgia. But the intent of Superman returning after several years and expecting everything to be the same. Same with Lex and Lois. They try, but it’s not the same, and they learn to grow and move on by the end.

It’s more so interesting in a time when everything is celebrating nostalgia. In a sense, it’s like The Matrix 4.

[benji]

That's the thing! Feige has pretty much built a whole empire over there where he can essentially just grab some old plot from the comics and plug in new characters, have his massive team whip up everything including the action scenes, then find some directors, writers and actors to spend some time filling in the gaps. Can just churn these out and if something bombs like Eternals or Marvels, he can just swap out the characters and use something else.

[benji]

If Feige really had balls, he'd bring back Ultron and James Spader and make a non-shitty version.

Just on principle, we should just remake everything Whedon's ever done so it can be as good as it should be.

[Boredfrom]

I’ll defend Superman Returns a little because it’s in many ways moving beyond nostalgia is the message. It does it through almost cloying levels of nostalgia. But the intent of Superman returning after several years and expecting everything to be the same. Same with Lex and Lois. They try, but it’s not the same, and they learn to grow and move on by the end.

It’s more so interesting in a time when everything is celebrating nostalgia. In a sense, it’s like The Matrix 4.

But they are doing this while still pandering to nostalgia to almost cynical degree. Luthor acts like old film Luthor for most of the film, everything is still pseudo retro and in the end it seems only interested in the films mythos rather than Superman as a whole. At the end they move on in the sense of “I can’t wait to Donut Lord to realize who is the father of Lois’ child” and “Singer made Superman kind of creepy.”

I’m glad that the new Superman film is basically Superman Vs the Elite/Authority, because while playing the messianic archetype could still move the character from a both the Snyder era and Reeves films in the eyes of the mainstream.

Again, I will give this to Snyder, but he tried to move Superman from the old films.

[Boredfrom]

Just on principle, we should just remake everything Whedon's ever done so it can be as good as it should be.

I’m also thinking about another Director that should have most of his stuff remade… just not by Whedon again.

[benji]

We don't have a proper plot or anything but everything about the new movie seems weird compared to when it was announced. It sounds more like using Superman as a vehicle to introduce a whole shit load of stuff when it was originally announced as some kind of focus specifically on him.

I really hope it's not vs. The Authority, but I can somewhat see the use of showing people the actual point of that story which was never "dark" vs "light" because that misses the point of what Superman outright says. Although I'm not sure how any of that works if The Authority are then going to get their own movie and Superman's going to disappear for who knows how long.

Also, Coup d'etat/Revolution is a better story about The Authority and their methodological issues. (And Justice League Elite is better than the original Elite story.  )

[Boredfrom]

Fine by me, I know that is not what DC and Gunn said about the relaunch, but I don’t care about Film Universes, I just want a decent Superman film, something that Gunn is capable of doing.  

I hated what the MCU was doing since Iron Man 2 even when I enjoyed Avengers. I just never cared to follow the films in the “great context”.

[Polident]

If Feige really had balls, he'd bring back Ultron and James Spader and make a non-shitty version.

Just on principle, we should just remake everything Whedon's ever done so it can be as good as it should be.

I’m in part to blame for watching it in theaters, but some movies come out, make a billion dollars, and nobody remembers anything about them. This isn’t a dig at Avatar and Avatar 2 The Way of Water by director James Cameron. More the entire Jurassic World series or those Pirates movies after 3.

Meanwhile, when I ask the average person on the street to tell me their favorite scene from Alita Battle Angel, they go on and on.

[Chumbawumbafan69]

Why are there so many guests online right now? Was an era mod outed as a DC fan?

[benji]

I’m also thinking about another Director that should have most of his stuff remade… just not by Whedon again.

The problem with the Snyderverse is Warner took a quintology they already approved that had a definitive ending and tried to launch an ongoing universe from it. Suicide Squad/Wonder Woman/The Batfleck/etc. were supposed to be side-stories not an "expanded universe" of any kind. Snyder was going to fuck it all up in the final part anyway because he just had to adapt Excalibur completely, they should have just let him and rebooted off of it. They probably could have easily convinced him to put in an epilogue that reboots the DC Universe as part of Bruce outsmarting everyone in the end.

That's not to say there wasn't reason to manage the spin-offs away from him, Snyder's Wonder Woman was set during the Crimean War:

Spoiler:  (click to show)(click to hide)

Not that this isn't amazing just that there's nobody else on Earth you can trust with it, it'd be like how Suicide Squad went with Ayer.

[Boredfrom]

Also, Coup d'etat/Revolution is a better story about The Authority and their methodological issues.

Well, yeah, but you need the context of what the Authority was by that time. I suspect Gunn is going just to juxtapose reactive vs proactive superheroes.

(If he is smart, he could use the bitching about the photo reveal to play with that “Superman ‘waisting’ his time while the Authority just kills the monster”)

[Boredfrom]

If Feige really had balls, he'd bring back Ultron and James Spader and make a non-shitty version.

Just on principle, we should just remake everything Whedon's ever done so it can be as good as it should be.

I’m in part to blame for watching it in theaters, but some movies come out, make a billion dollars, and nobody remembers anything about them. This isn’t a dig at Avatar and Avatar 2 The Way of Water by director James Cameron. More the entire Jurassic World series or those Pirates movies after 3.

Meanwhile, when I ask the average person on the street to tell me their favorite scene from Alita Battle Angel, they go on and on.

The only good Pirates of the Caribbean film is the first one.  

I’m dying in that hill.

[benji]

Warner was wrong though for cutting this mid/post-credit from Wonder Woman, probably after they dumped Snyder

Spoiler: last scene of the DCEU is an awesome mid/post-credit scene though imo (click to show)(click to hide)

[Polident]

The problem with the Snyderverse is Warner took a quintology they already approved that had a definitive ending and tried to launch an ongoing universe from it. Suicide Squad/Wonder Woman/The Batfleck/etc. were supposed to be side-stories not an "expanded universe" of any kind. Snyder was going to fuck it all up in the final part anyway because he just had to adapt Excalibur completely, they should have just let him and rebooted off of it. They probably could have easily convinced him to put in an epilogue that reboots the DC Universe as part of Bruce outsmarting everyone in the end.

You’re more knowledgeable about all this than me, but reading about some of this years back, it sounded like Geoff Johns kept messing things up. Like, even pre MOS with Green Lantern. Something about feeling inadequate over his former coworker Feige becoming this big deal in Hollywood. Kept trying to make it happen for himself. Nolan kept telling him to fuck off.

Whatever the case. At least The Batman seems isolated from the rest of the shit show.

[Polident]

Too much earnest superhero nerd talk.

Need to return to celebrating gamers and gamer achievements.

[benji]

Johns is an awful choice to pick for someone to translate comics for normies, like an inverse Feige. I actually liked some of his lines for Justice League though and thought Snyder should have kept them in the Snyder Cut, they're supposed to be these amusing quips but read as really dark humor mostly by Bruce.

edit: Actually, Johns is a double case because he also started out writing with Goyer. Johns' "great" series started with Robinson and Goyer and Johns was the fill-in for Robinson when he left. Robinson has always been the superior version of what Johns tries to do with "legacies" imo.

I wouldn't be shocked if Johns didn't really like what Goyer, Snyder and Terrio did and didn't understand it. Johns has since proven he didn't really understand Watchmen or The Killing Joke.

[Boredfrom]

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The problem with the Snyderverse is Warner took a quintology they already approved that had a definitive ending and tried to launch an ongoing universe from it. Suicide Squad/Wonder Woman/The Batfleck/etc. were supposed to be side-stories not an "expanded universe" of any kind. Snyder was going to fuck it all up in the final part anyway because he just had to adapt Excalibur completely, they should have just let him and rebooted off of it. They probably could have easily convinced him to put in an epilogue that reboots the DC Universe as part of Bruce outsmarting everyone in the end.

You’re more knowledgeable about all this than me, but reading about some of this years back, it sounded like Geoff Johns kept messing things up. Like, even pre MOS with Green Lantern. Something about feeling inadequate over his former coworker Feige becoming this big deal in Hollywood. Kept trying to make it happen for himself. Nolan kept telling him to fuck off.

Whatever the case. At least The Batman seems isolated from the rest of the shit show.

Geoff John is a decent to good comics writer, thought. 

Yes, he is an inverse Fiege but that’s why many people liked him at comics. He fought for Dick Grayson when DC wanted to kill him. Is weird how he imploded, but I blame DC/Warner leadership. 

Honestly, I was annoyed when I learned that Hickman give Fiege a fellatio in his last issue on the X-men.

[benji]

A Johns DCU would be the version of the MCU everyone pretends exists where you'd be completely lost if you didn't watch and rewatch everything before each new installment. Even though all of it would be completely meaningless because Johns is the ultimate stakes to maximum every time which means he's constantly creating new universal threats that require new powers to defeat that all tie into everything else and are always explained by some callback to some reference to some thing he was hinting at that you didn't pick up on because well you just aren't the master with canon that Geoff Johns is and isn't just Johns grabbing stuff he personally likes. And every film would stop halfway through for some exposition dump about all of this.

[Boredfrom]

Johns has since proven he didn't really understand Watchmen or The Killing Joke.

I don’t think anyone in Warner/DC understands them. Alan Moore seems to genuinely despise Killing Joke (not in the usual grumpy “DC fuck me up” way, but like genuinely disliking it). 

I heard good things of the Watchmen tv Show, but that was a self admitted “remix” sequel.

[Boredfrom]

A Johns DCU would be the version of the MCU everyone pretends exists where you'd be completely lost if you didn't watch and rewatch everything before each new installment. Even though all of it would be completely meaningless because Johns is the ultimate stakes to maximum every time which means he's constantly creating new universal threats that require new powers to defeat that all tie into everything else and are always explained by some callback to some reference to some thing he was hinting at that you didn't pick up on because well you just aren't the master with canon that Geoff Johns is and isn't just Johns grabbing stuff he personally likes. And every film would stop halfway through for some exposition dump about all of this.

So… the genuine IRL MCU? Just more sincere in its geekiness?

[HardcoreRetro]

[benji]

I mean it's a real problem in Johns case because he was supposed to be writing not only the sequel to it but one that altered all of the DC Universe to truly undo the New 52. But because he botched it so bad they just used (Scott) Snyder's version and I wouldn't be surprised if Doomsday Clock mostly vanishes from the canon.

[Boredfrom]

BTW, the other day I was watching Godzilla & Kong and I was surprised how much they explain about the past film and the dynamics of the Titans/Kaijus even if the plot is still mostly independent of the rest of the Monsterverse. 

Then again, the plot is just “Godzilla and Kong fight Evil Monkey’s army in hollow earth.”

[Boredfrom]

I mean it's a real problem in Johns case because he was supposed to be writing not only the sequel to it but one that altered all of the DC Universe to truly undo the New 52. But because he botched it so bad they just used (Scott) Snyder's version and I wouldn't be surprised if Doomsday Clock mostly vanishes from the canon.

 

Oh god. How far the dude has fallen.

I didn’t read Doomsday Clock (I was already out of western super hero stuff after Morrison’s Batman ended) and I know he was out of his element with Watchmen (he is a “popcorn superhero” type writer).

I feel sorry for him because I really liked his Green Lantern.

[benji]

He got to do the JSA reboot and he also got to do three seasons of Stargirl before leaving DC. Now he's got his own company: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ghost_Machine_(company) that apparently is already developing streaming adaptions of stuff.

[Boredfrom]

Why is DC obsessed with Alan Moore stuff? Outside of legal stuff there is no need to revisit those stories, Watchmen was always its own thing and most people reduce killing joke to “that time Joker crippled Batgirl”. 

I still remember wasting my money in the Blu Ray of the animated version of the Killing Joke ( WTF with that first half? )